Nick Kiddle ([info]ksej) wrote,
@ 2008-04-15 18:26:00
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Differences of opinion
Which of these statements is not like the others?

a) The final movement of Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony is the most beautiful piece of music ever written.
b) Pizza is not complete without black olives.
c) Transsexual men are men, even if they get pregnant.
d) Nigel Adkins is a reasonable manager who was hopelessly out of his depth this season.

a), b) and d) all refer to my opinions. I've neglected to add a disclaimer saying that it's my opinion, but I trust intelligent human beings to figure out that things like the beauty of music, the completeness of pizza or the managerial acumen of Nigel Adkins can really only be matters of opinion. Therefore, if you tell me that Beethoven is overrated, anchovies are the truly essential pizza topping, and Adkins was the single person most responsible for our relegation, we might have a vigourous debate, but it's not likely to get nasty.

c) is a different beast. It's not so much a matter of opinion as a matter of definition. There are all sorts of definitions of "man" floating round, some of which include trans men and some of which don't. The ones that don't, the ones that revolve around actual or theoretical ability to get pregnant, are kind of essentialist. And kind of transphobic. And, if you start using them around trans people, kind of rude.

Trans people are real, and there's plenty of evidence that we're not just making shit up to be awkward. If your dictionary says there can never be such a thing as a female-bodied man, it's time to get a better dictionary. This isn't negotiable as far as I'm concerned. I'm fed up of the conversation where I explain trans in general and me in particular and the other person keeps coming back with, "But how do you know?"

I just know, OK? This isn't up for debate, because it's an inherently unlevel playing field. You can have pleasant intellectual exercises while remaining completely detatched, but I can never be detatched. We're talking about me, and whether my own sense of what I am is even admissible as evidence, and for some strange reason I always come out of these discussions shaking like a leaf.

And that doesn't make me close-minded. It doesn't mean I want everyone to agree with me: see a), b) and d) for evidence of my ability to tolerate different points of view. It's just that some things aren't about different points of view as much as they're about not being an asshole.



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[info]webmacher
2008-04-15 05:56 pm UTC (link)
I make the mistake of reading an online mother's group, and the discussion of Tom Beattie's pregnancy was simply disgusting. I'd like to chalk it up to the fact that this concept is only recently getting more news coverage and a lot of poeple are just ignorant rather than mean, but it sure sounds mean the way they talk.

There are a couple of "gender-variant" girls in my friend's daughter's school, and the school has been very careful to educate the students and their families, so possibly this new generation of kids will grow up with a better understanding... one can only hope. (At least Oprah appears to be on the right side of history.)

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[info]ksej
2008-04-15 06:10 pm UTC (link)
"Sufficiently advanced ignorance is indistinguishable from malice", and when people are not just ignorant but resistant to being set straight, I get out of the conversation fast now. I was going to summarise a couple of conversations that led to this post, but really that won't do anyone's blood pressure any good :(

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[info]jenn_possible
2008-04-15 06:21 pm UTC (link)
I would personally go with C, but for all I know, Nigel Adkins is objectively a good manager ;)

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[info]ksej
2008-04-15 07:08 pm UTC (link)
The fact that his team just got relegated (moved down to a lower division) suggests not so much ;)

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[info]telynmurali
2008-04-15 06:41 pm UTC (link)
"But how do you know?"

That's the most ridiculous response I've ever heard. I read this quote recently - and it was referring to being gay, but never mind - 'You don't just "know". You know... Then you know-know. Then you really, really KNOW.'

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[info]nixwilliams
2008-04-15 10:33 pm UTC (link)
nigel adkins is a transsexual man even without getting pregnant with beethoven's olives?

oh, the "how do you know?" question. how do they know they're not? *sigh*

the beatie stuff has turned me off reading anything about it in the ftm lj communities. full of arseholes.

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[info]ksej
2008-04-15 10:45 pm UTC (link)
nigel adkins is a transsexual man even without getting pregnant with beethoven's olives?
I'm very glad I'd finished my drink before I read that!

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